Interview held November 21, 2000. The interviewer is unknown and the first minute or so of the interview was not recorded.
The three interviewees are: Pearl M (1915-2001), Helen O (1921-2012) and IA
This interview is wide ranging and covers many topics relevant to life in Tabernacle during the first half of the last century. Some of them are:
Arrival of Gerber Family in Tabernacle from Friendship and , earlier, the Green Bank area
History of the Allen, O’Neal and Severs families
Variations in the pronunciation of “Bozarthtown”
How the old Severs Log Cabin moved from Dingletown in Shamong to Bozarthtown Rd. in Tabernacle
The Arrow Safety Co. of Mt Holly, manufacturer of automobile turn signal lights
How the Bozarthtown O’Neal house passed from the O’Neal’s to the Fitzpatricks and back to Bruce O’Neal
Helen: Louis Gerber (The question probably was “what was the name of your father?” HON’s ‘s father was Louis Gerber.)
Interviewer: Uh huh and
Irene: You lived… where did you live when you were growing up? ’cause I don’t know.
Helen: I lived here in Tabernacle.
Irene: I know, but did you live on Red Lion Road?
Helen: I was born in Tabernacle.
Irene: Yeah, you lived down on…
Helen: On Chatsworth Road.
Interviewer: Oh…Where can you…can you pinpoint where on Chatsworth Road, Helen?
Helen: It was on the corner of Chatsworth and Zimmerman
Interviewer: Ok…go ahead… is that the house…the house is not standing…obviously.
Helen: They tore that down.
Irene: But a Gerber still lives there. Yeah…uh huh… sure a Gerber still lives there.
Helen: He still lives there. He built the house.
Interviewer: Uh huh… oh okay. So you were on the umn north side of Zimmerman Road? Which would be where all where Donald and his parents live?
Interviewer: Ok so are you related… are you related to that…to that those Gerbers? Okay Okay. So are you related to Donald, Irene also, right, Donald and his family…ok.
Interviewer: Donald and his family. And Pearl married…
Pearl: I married a Gerber.
Interviewer: You married a Gerber so you are related to the Gerbers also.
Pearl: I’m sister-in-law to Helen.
Interviewer: Oh, Okay. Excellent. Okay. Helen when did your parents or grandparents, who were the first to come to Tabernacle?
Helen: My parents.
Interviewer: Your parents. And do you remember when they…
Helen: (19)18,,.(19)18, …
Pearl: When Jim was 3 or 4 years old. He was born in 1913 so probably 1916.
Helen: I think so.
Interviewer: Around 1916 they came and where did they come from?
Helen: Tollertown, Green Bank.
Irene: I think that…
Irene: Didn’t Dee, no Honey, take us there one day…so no you weren’t around. It’s down near Batsto?
Irene: Yeah you have to go past Batsto and turn to the right and you go into Tylertown. It’s in back of the old cemetery somewhere.
Helen: It is?
Pearl: It’s in back of the old Batsto cemetery…in back of the old church.
Irene: Pleasantville…Pleasantville… That’s what it is called…
Interviewer: Do you know?
Pearl: I thought it was called Pleasant Mills?
Irene: You’re right…
Pearl: Pleasant Mills.
Interviewer: Uh huh and
A: He was already married ok…ok…and did your mother come from Tylerville also?
Helen: No. She came from Chatsworth.
Interviewer: Okay, how did them come to meet?
Irene: We never knows those things.
Interviewer: You don’t know?
Helen: I have no idea.
Interviewer: Interesting. Well, do you know why they came to Tabernacle and settled here?
Helen: They bought the farm…you know, where I said I was born.
Irene: Well I remember when we went there, it was in the woods. I don’t think that there was that much farming was there so if they wanted to make a living other than going in the woods and getting the goodies out of the woods they had to move to a farm. And there was still a lot of farmland around Tabernacle. It had opened up considerably by 1916. I would say.
Pearl: And their father was a baker, wasn’t he?
Helen: My grandfather was a baker.
Pearl: And they moved out of Philadelphia to Tylertown.
Helen: They came from… they came from Germany.
Irene: Oh my goodness… what would bring them to Philadelphia? (laughing).
Pearl: Because he had asthma and he had to give up the bakery.
Irene: ahhhh…I see. For health purposes.
Helen: I didn’t know that.
Irene: You didn’t?
Interviewer: When did…when was that? Do you have any idea, Pearl?
Pearl: No, that I don’t know. Because Aunt Rae is the one who told me that.
Irene: Oh… It’s to bad we didn’t start this earlier. Not with the tape recording but we could have interviewed people if we had thought of it. And she would have been a wonderful one…and Herb.
Interviewer: I have heard that there are a few people who we really have missed.
Irene: Thank heaven for Ken Yates who remembers a lot. (laughing)
Interviewer: Ken does remember an enormous amount. I guess he sat and talked with a lot of people and just absorbed just all their information. Um, ok, so in the early 1900’s your parents came here, bought some land and started a farm. Do we have any information about who owned the land prior, before, for example, when your parents came and started the farm?
Pearl: I used to know who…
Helen: I think it was a Shenski…
Irene: Yes, John Shenski
Helen: I think it was… mom and daddy bought… I don’t know the first name was…I know it was a Shenski.
Interviewer: It would be interesting to know how…
Irene: Well, Shenski…is buried here in the cemetery.
Irene: And they are, uh ancestors of DeMarco because he puts he has flowers put there every holiday.
Pearl: Didn’t one of them marry a DeMarco?
Helen: I think so…yeah…yes.
Irene: Well, I don’t know whether that…oh was she a Senski…his mother I don’t really remember.
Pearl: You mean Demarco’s mother?
Pearl: No, she was an Alloway.
Irene: That’s what I was going to say…so Shenski had to be a generation before.
Irene: We could look at the dates on the tombstone and know for sure. You know, but I know there is a connection there.
Interviewer: Now what kind of farm did your parents have?
Interviewer: Vegetable farm. OK…is it…would you can you describe it?
Helen: He had tomatoes, asparagus, uh strawberries, corn,
Interviewer: Where did he sell the crops? Where did he sell…where did he sell the uh produce?
Irene: The produce…where did the produce go?
Helen: New York.
Interviewer: NY…Oh, did he take it there himself?
Helen: Oh no ..no..no
Helen: It was like a ..
Pearl: A trucker, a trucker, wasn’t it?
Pearl: A trucker wasn’t it from Indian Mills?
Irene: Nick Prickett. Yeah.
Helen: A man run a truck…it was his business and come pick oit up and he would take it to NY.
Interviewer: Ah ha Ok, that’s a little different from a…
Helen: a horse and buggy.
Interviewer: Going to Camden. Yeah…
Helen: to Campbell Soups.
Irene: that was a later era…that was my era… (laughing)
Pearl: Did he ever pick wild huckleberries?
Helen: Uh huh… in the swamp.
Pearl: Now did he ever have to take them over to Atsion to meet the train?
Helen: Right. Uh huh.
Interviewer: And where did the train take him to?
Pearl: Probably Philadelphia I imagine.
Helen: I imagine.
Pearl: Philadelphia, I think…not positive. I would almost say it would be Philadelphia.
Interviewer: Now, do you have sisters or brothers?
Interviewer: Can you talk about them? Would you talk about them? How many?
Helen: There are seven of us all together. My brother Milton, and Herbert, her husband James.
Helen: my other brother Harry, he’s the youngest and my sister Thelma and my sister Cerrita.
Interviewer: Ok.Are you related to Thelma Grovatt?
Helen: She’s my sister….
Interviewer: She’s your sister.
Pearl: Oh you’re learning… You’re learning.
Helen: She’s two years younger.
Interviewer: Ok. Ok. Now the picture really…the pieces slowly get put together. Ok (laughing), and um…did all…did well Thelma has been here all her life?
Helen: Same as me.
Interviewer: Same as you. What about your brothers? Did they stay here? Did them ultimately settle here?
Helen: James…her husband.. he has stayed here. Herbert…he stayed. My brother Milton he lived in Mount Holly.
Irene: Harry stayed.
Helen: Harry stayed. But Cerrita she’s been all over.
Irene: I don’t quite understand. How did Herb and Milton go to the Friendship School? Because…
Helen: Because they used to live in Friendship before they moved to Tabernacle.
Irene: Your mother and father lived there? They went from Tylerville…
Helen: After they were married.
Irene: To Friendship.
Irene: Ahh see.
Interviewer: And then they came to Zimmerman Road.
Helen: Right. There…
Irene: Uh huh I see…there had to be a missing here there for them to be in that school.
Pearl: I think Jim, when they moved up here was only like 3 or 4.
Irene: We have a picture of him …he’s with the chickens… he’s about this big (laughing).
Pearl: I’ve got that picture.
Irene: You’ve got that one two?
Interviewer: Ok and now how did they… do you know how by Helen they lived down in Friendship before they moved up to Zimmerman?
Irene: Probably wouldn’t have been too awful long.
Helen: Milton was born there.
Pearl: And Milton was born on 1906? Jim was born in 1913. So that’s 7 years.
Irene: Well they closed the school in 1917. That I know so at the time they probably either had moved already.
Pearl: They had moved…by then. Probably. Because, um,…I lost my count again. In 1906-Jim was born in 1913 so that’s 7 years right?
Pearl: 7 years difference. And then if Jim was say 3 when they moved up here that would be 10 years. So they would have lived at least 10 years in Friendship.
Pearl: maybe, maybe 12…I don’t exactly know that part.
Irene: Well. You weren’t involved either. He wasn’t old enough to be your husband at that point (laughing).
Interviewer: Did you know what they did when they were living down in Friendship?
Irene: What everybody did. Cranberries bogs…cranberries.
Helen: Cranberries were in Friendship at that time I think and probably…
Irene: There was a lot of work to be done on a bog. Even today the same work goes on. Although it’s done with machinery. Right now they are busy sanding the bogs to settle the roots in again after all the turmoil they have been through in the picking process and uh that has always been.
Helen: They have been sanding in a different way.
Pearl: They sure have.
Helen: The bogs would freeze over and then take the sand truck on the bogs and spread the sand that way.
Pearl: Before that they did it with horse and wagon.
Helen: Did they?
Pearl: My father used to go up to Birches with the horse and wagon and then they put the sand on the wagon, take it on the bog and spread it with a shovel.
Helen: Cause I remember my father used to help Uncle Julius.
Pearl: Then they finally did after it froze over.
Helen: Yea, uh hum.
Interviewer: Do you remember who owned the bogs? That your parents worked on?
Irene: Evans and Wills (laughter).
Irene: Whoever they were.
Pearl: We actually looked that up another time.
Helen: Earl Haines too, my father worked on his bog.
Irene: Those down here at Goose Pond, or…
Pearl: Well back in there somewhere. They are back in the woods somewhere.
Irene: In Goose Pond. Yes yes yes in Goose Pond. Which is on the curve on the way to Chatsworth.
Helen: Uh huh.
Interviewer: So in the years preceding um actually that was a transition period they went from Tylerville to working at the bogs and living in Friendship and then getting their own land and starting a vegetable farm. Ok and um, do you remember what it was like for you? When you were growing up? (laughter).
Helen: We need a video for the expressions we have (laughter).
Interviewer: I know…I wish…I’m getting that organized but it’s not quick enough.
Helen: But we worked hard.
Irene: Yeah…children worked hard…We didn’t watch TV all day…did they…no no no!
Helen: I took care of the horses and the chickens. My sister Thelma milked the cow. And of course we always had the job since we got home from school carrying wood in.
Irene: Uh huh…right.
Pearl: Filling the wood box.
Irene: What were the boys doing if you girls were carrying the wood?
Helen: Ah, they were all ready grown up.
Irene: Oh oh.
Helen: There was 8 years between Jim and I.
Helen: I don’t ever remember them even living home.
Irene: Oh my…how about that?
Interviewer: So you ended up doing the boys’ labor as well?
Helen: Right, oh yes (laughter).
A: Are those fond memories?
Helen: Yeah…it didn’t hurt us.
Irene: Well but everybody was in the same condition.
Pearl: Doing the same thing.
Irene: We didn’t know that it was supposed to be any different like the city kids.
Interviewer: I understand.
Pearl: We didn’t know we was poor until now (laughter).
Interviewer: It depends upon how you define poor Irene.
Pearl: We were better off with food of our own then many people in the city were starving to death.
Irene: We always had enough clothing even though it might have been handed down from someone older than you or a neighbor or something and they outgrew and gave to us. But it was a different kind of education that we had then they have today.
Helen: I guess we didn’t lose anything by it.
Pearl: Oh I don’t think so.
Interviewer: Now what did your…you said your brothers had already left the farm once you when you because there was 8 years between you and Jim. What..where did they go? Where did each of them go and what did they do?
Pearl: You don’t remember? (laughter)
Helen: Well, of course…Milton married and he worked at Birmingham and that’s where he lived.
Interviewer: Where’s Birmingham?
Irene: Oh, over on the way to Pemberton. Cybron – was it Cybron? already there: It was still the marl pits though.
Helen: Right…right.. He was there like a plant foreman…he had the license to do that…that was his job. And of course Herb.
Pearl: He went on to the county…
Helen: He went on the state.
Irene: He worked at the Marlton plant for quite a while.
Helen: Then Herb did and went on to State.
Irene: Oh, he worked for the state, not county?
Interviewer: And what did he do there Helen?
Helen: He drove a truck for the state of NJ.
Pearl: That would be the Road Department?
Helen: Uh huh. Oh yes.
Irene: And of course Thelma grew up and married Grovatt the farmer, but Grovatt came from Rancocas.
Helen: Rancocas…they lived in Rancocas first for a year I think.
Irene: And then he bought over here? Helen: Uh huh.
Interviewer: Now who else is there?
Irene: Who did you marry? Where did he come from?
Helen: Originally from Delaware.
Helen: That’s where he was born and…
Interviewer: What’s his name?
Helen: Virgil. They moved to Jersey I think he said when he was 6 years old.
Pearl: Uh huh.
Helen: And they bought the farm where Thelma now lives.
Helen: And then his parents…oh he was living in Medford when we got together (laughter).
Irene: And how did you meet? I mean was there a common bond?
Irene: In church, uh huh. That’s a good place to meet.
Pearl: Uh huh. That’s where you met, wasn’t it?
Irene: Only I didn’t marry someone from Delaware. People look at me. How did you ever meet an Italian from Italy? Oh, he wasn’t from Italy any more.
Helen: In church?
Interviewer: So your husband’s family actually settled on the farm that is now run by Thelma and the boys?
Interviewer: And how long…do you know how long his family was at that farm?
Helen: Maybe two or three years? And then they moved to Mt. Laurel and then to Medford.
Interviewer: Ok. And what did they do?
Interviewer: They were farmers, so they bought land in Mt Laurel?
Helen: They always worked for another man. Like you know to help…Then they finally bought a place here in Tabernacle.
A: And where is that?
Helen: That’s on Flyatt Road.
Irene: Yeah, O’Neal still lives there.
Helen: But the parents…his parents…built it and after he passed away Asbury bought it.
Irene: And it’s still a farm, just a different kind of farm like flowers and shrubbery.
Helen: I think everything.
Interviewer: Where is that? Which one is that?
Pearl: Well you go down Flyatt Road past the church and past, what, 2-3 houses, Contes… (unintelligible).
Irene: Just about 3 houses down church on the corner. No not the church where all the flowers are.
Interviewer: On the right hand side? Ok, I know exactly where that is and who was Asbury?
Helen: That was Virgil’s brother.
Interviewer: Ok…ok…so actually there’s family still there then? Ok, that’s what you are saying. Ok.
Irene: But Asbury’s son is and grandson.
Irene: And uh one of the other sons has the insurance business?
Helen: That’s the same one.
Pearl: That’s the same one?
Helen: They had only one son.
Pearl: Oh, ok…see I’m learning things too.
Interviewer: So on 206…O’Neal is …ohhh…ok.
Pearl: He’s the same one.
Interviewer: He’s the same…and he’s a member of the family…ok. Now I understand. And um..yes…everything is interconnected…really it’s all interconnected.
Irene: You know, for years, until I don’t know just exactly what census it was 1970…we were 700 people so you did know each other and lived here for years and years and if they weren’t intermarried at least they were related socially in some way.
Interviewer: Uh huh.
Pearl: he next censuses were 7000 that’s a whole huge amount of people to move into Tabernacle in 10 years.And now we are over 8000 and something.
Irene: And I’m not so sure that’s a good thing happened to Tabernacle either.
Interviewer: I would have to agree.
Irene: Everyone calls us pineys when we seemed dead out here and now they are all moving out here.
Irene: Get away from urban problems and bring them with them.
Interviewer: And bring them with them.
Irene: Or want us to have them.
Interviewer: Want us to have them but we won’t go there.
Pearl: No no no.
Interviewer: Well there are any number of things that what you know, Pearl, let’s talk about your family (it’s the same family).
Interviewer: But she may have things she wants to add to this.
Pearl: Um, my maiden name was Severs.
Pearl: And guess from where …And you know from where…you should know this.
Interviewer: Buzztown…so you’re related to Bob Severs?
Pearl: My cousin.
Interviewer: That’s your…he’s your cousin? Ok ok.
Pearl: He lives in the house I was born in.
Interviewer: Oh really, that’s such a wonderful place. Yes, yeah, I was visiting with them some weeks ago.
Irene: Yeah and he bought the house, my father died and my mother wasn’t one to live alone and she went with my sister and then Bobby bought the house.
Pearl: Maybe she can answer a question we had…she just called it Bozarthtown. Did you ever use Bozurtown?
Irene: Yes, but I hated that from the day one.
Interviewer: Why..why was that?
Irene: They just cut off and didn’t say Bozarth. Because it’s always been Bozarth. But the older people, just like there was a guy named Charlie Bozarth. They called him Charlie Bozure.
Helen: Oh really.
Pearl: O that’s how come…
Interviewer: So actually, Pearl, it has a long history the term Bozer rather than Bozarth?
Pearl: The older people, that’s what they called it.
Interviewer: Oh, I see.
Irene: But I always hated that.
Pearl: I don’t like it. I just don’t like Bozer.
Irene: It was not right. It wasn’t right. It was Bozarth and that’s the way it should have been.
Pearl: What so people say today? Now older people like me they would say Bozure because that’s the way I grew up.
Irene: I say Bozarthtown cause I hate the other.
Interviewer: I hear both but depending who I’m talking to.
Helen: To us didn’t matter any difference. Which everone you want to call it. We know where it is. They say either.
Irene: But the new people moving in it has developed with a lot of new houses they must be Bozarthtown.
Pearl: Yeah. I imagine they do. I really don’t know what they call it.
Irene: You said you’ve heard both.
Interviewer: I’ve heard both. Well…I can say it was one age group or another that is saying Bozure versus Bozarth but I have heard both. Now when we talk to Bobbie we’ll ask him what they say.
Pearl: He would probably say Bozure.
Helen: Probably (laughter).
Pearl: That’s Bobby.
Interviewer: Now, did you know the Bozarth family? Can you tell us anything about them?
Pearl: No…no uh. I knew my grandmother of course.
Irene: Was she a Bozarth?
Pearl: Yeah…oh. My grandmother was a Bozarth. Grandmother Severs was a Bozarth.
Interviewer: I see.
Irene: She was….Remember Mary Batterson?
Pearl: Yes, I knew the name.
Irene: They were sisters.
Pearl: Batterson. She lived next door to us in Bozarthtown.
Interviewer: So…yeah…you know.
Pearl: But she was…but then where she originated I really don’t know…I just don’t know.
Irene: Because there’s two groups of Bozarths, there’s one in Retreat, that’s another one. See my mother’s maiden name was Bozarth but they came in from the Retreat area. So that was another gang of Bozarth’s. They weren’t related.
Pearl: Oh well if they were related they were far apart with my Haines family. We can’t say I’m related to them back in the 1600’s and something you know and came down from this person. The blood is there but you don’t feel related.
Irene: And see that part I don’t know.
Irene: It could have been two brothers that did that.
Pearl: And my grandfather which was Severs before I never knew him he died before I was born, but he came from France.
Interviewer: Oh that’s interesting.
Pearl: And he was a redhead, he was a redhead.
Interviewer: Did you know where he settled?
Irene: It’s amazing ended how these ended up in the back woods.
Pearl: I know where they lived…where they lived.
Interviewer: Where is that?
Pearl: Oh I still call it Dingletown Road, Forked Neck Road. You go down Forked Neck Road you come to Forest Bridge Road you make a left and it’s off in there, not to awful far. They had a very small farm and I mean it was small and that house. Let’s see., well it’s Bobby’s house, actually that little house next to Bobby. That little log house they moved that from Dingletown Road off there.
Irene: I never knew that.
Helen: Yes you did. We saw it on that tour.
Irene: I don’t know they moved it.
Pearl: They moved it. They moved it from there.
Irene: Tell me something about that farm. Did a family eventually move in there and they had a very young girl who was a real bad asthmatic person? My father had a blueberry field back in there somewhere. I don’t know I couldn’t find it now I was only 9…10…11…whatever. And he used to leave me there to pack the blueberries while he went off to work. But he didn’t feel badly about it you know because it was very isolated and the farm house was here and I was there. I have often wondered if I could find the place.
Pearl: It’s Scott.
Irene: Scott…that’s right.Pearl: And her name I now forgot. I knew her very well.
Irene: Yeah well she died very early.
Pearl: She married and had children though.
Irene: Oh, I didn’t know that.
Pearl: She married and had children but then she didn’t live very long. But that’s off Oriental Road the one you are talking about. Yeah, now that was between the Severs , would have been between Oriental and on down Bard’s Bridge. That would be in that area.
Interviewer: Did you know when they moved the house?
Pearl: I don’t know when they moved the house.See that part never was…
Irene: Immagine moving that house.
Pearl: They moved probably.
Irene: On a wagon.
Pearl: Some sort of wagon.
Irene: Sure sure they did.
Pearl: And see it was just the front and then the back kitchen they built later. Still very small but she had a lot of children in there.
Interviewer: What was her name again Pearl?
Pearl: My grandmother? Adelaide.
Pearl: Adelaide Severs. Ok.
Interviewer: Ok. And this is a new relationship that I have to get my mind adjusted to, so forgive me if I get all the names wrong and all the relationships. Ok, you are a Bozarth. Your mother was a Bozarth…you are…
Pearl: I was a Sever.
Interviewer: Ok. You were a Sever and your mother was a Bozarth… and she…what about her parents?
Helen: Her parents lived over in Retreat, on Retreat Road.
Interviewer: Ok, so they were Bozarths. The Retreat Bozarths. I am just getting this organized in my brain. Came to settle into.
Pearl: They have a small farm too.
Interviewer: Over in Retreat.
Pearl: uh huh.
Interviewer: Did they stay in Retreat and it was just your parents who ended up in…ah
Pearl: They stayed in Retreat, yes?
Interviewer: Your grandparents stayed in Retreat and it was your parents who uh…
Pearl: It was my mother.
Interviewer: It was your mother who married and moved out and how did she come…who was…your father…was a Severs obviously, and how did she-who is he?
Pearl: I know who he is but how they met I can’t tell you… His name is John.
Interviewer: John Severs.
Pearl: I don’t know how they met. I simply don’t know how they met because he was over there.
A: He was in Bozarthtown and she was in Retreat. Well now why… this is a stupid question… I don’t have a clear understanding of? How did it come to be named.. if she married a Severs why was it already named Bozarthtown?
Pearl: Well because that it was named Bozarthtown long before she went there. It was Bozarthtown probably from my Grandmother Severs because she was a Bozarth.
Pearl: Bozarthtown over there became Bozarthtown because of that group of Bozarth’s.
Interviewer: The Retreat Bozarths.
Irene: No no. Bozarth up here.
Interviewer: Oh there were Bozarths up there.
Irene: Well there must have been several of them to be Bozarthtown.
Pearl: Well I know there was a Mary who married a Batterson and Charles who lived around there…well I guess until he died really her brother. And then uh there was Laura who lived up in Jenkins Neck.
Interviewer: They got around.
Interviewer: Where is Jenkins Neck Pearl?
Pearl: Where is Jenkins Neck? Don’t tell me you don’t know where Jenkins Neck is?
Irene: You ever go to New Gretna by the back road?
Irene: Go to Chatsworth and then you turn right.
Helen: Where Mick’s Canoe’s ?
Interviewer: Oh yes…that’s Jenkins…of course, you just have to jog my memory.
Interviewer: Oh yes…that’s Jenkins…of course, you just have to jog my memory.
Pearl: There were several of the Bozarths. Now I understand that they lived in Orlando Platt’s house which was way back well I say way back a lane. I don’t remember because the only one I remember being there was Platt. Maybe they grew up there the Bozarths? Maybe that’s how come. I don’t know.
Helen: How many houses were in Bozuretown?
Pearl: When I kind of memorized that a little bit. When I was (little) it was about 1920 when I counted 10 houses.
Pearl: And now right in there I think I counted 38.
Helen: See how that grown up.
Interviewer: Yeah, yeah, yeah absolutely Ok. Now what was um you were growing up there…what were you doing? Um did you have sisters? Well obviously you had sisters and brothers.
Pearl: I had 1 sister.
Pearl: And 2 brothers.
Interviewer: And 2 brothers…ok and who were they?
Pearl: Well my sister was 15 years older.
Pearl: That it was a lot of difference then. She was 15 years older and when she was 18 she went to Riverside. And my brother was 1 year younger than her and he stayed around and he was a mechanic. And he married I think he was like 22 maybe or something like that when he got married. But he stayed in the area. Well finally he went up by Hog Wallower. Now I’m sure you know where that is (laughter). And he was a mechanic on their machinery and all up there. And then he finally came down and moved down to Vincentown. And he in the end was working for the State Of New Jersey Transportation. That is what happened to him. My younger brother, he’s 7 years younger than
Pearl: And he lives in Burlington.He’s married, of course, and has lived around Burlington since he got married. He’s 79 and he’s still working at Arrow Safety.
Irene: Good for him.
Helen: Is that Norman?
Helen: Can you imagine?
Irene: And Arrow Safety is still in Medford?
Pearl: No, it’s in Mt Holly.
Pearl:They work on a shoe thing, I guess he’s been a foreman for 50 some years.
Interviewer: An institution.
Pearl: Last time I talked to him (he said) “You know what, I am tired of getting up so early.” Then why don’t you just quit?
Irene: And what did you do with your life before you married Jim?
Pearl: Not a whole lot… (laughing), I married young.
Irene: 14? (laughter)
Pearl: No, not 14. I foolishly quit high school you know and you know that was kinda dumb thing to do, but I did it. But I felt I got a lot of education in those 8 years. In fact I think I know more than these kids coming out of high school today.
Irene: They have too much to do and they’re interested in sports and TV.
Pearl: So then I worked around home of course and then I sorted cranberries and that kind of.. you know.
Pearl: Scooped cranberries. And my father had a cranberry bog, not a huge one, but he had a cranberry bog. And right behind our house we had a small cranberry bog. And in the very beginning my mother used to go there and pick them by hand. And that I didn’t do a lot of picking, I did a lot of scooping and that’s damn hard work.
Irene: Yes it is.
Pearl: And uh, let’s see, I was 17 in February and I married that next October. I was 17 and Jim he was 18.
Irene: And what did he do?
Pearl: He was a laborer on the cranberry bog. He made $15.00 a week when he worked.
Interviewer: And that now,you met him working?
Pearl: No, I met him…it was kinda of crazy how I met him. Every Saturday, early Saturday night, my father we’d go out to the store, the grocery store, and we’d get ice cream. That’s blinking, does that mean it’s done?
Interviewer: I’m watching the tape. That means it’s getting near the end so I’m going to watch it so we can maximize the tape. And then I’ll tell you to hold that thought and I’ll turn it over.
Pearl: I went out with him and I was getting ice cream and Jim came over. He was at the store and he says, “how would you like to go to the Sunday School Picnic?” And so I said “yes I would go.”
Irene: But you had already.. you knew… who he was.
Pearl: I knew him but only another kid. You know I went to school with him, but I mean only another kid.
Irene: When you went to school, where did you go? The two room building up here?
Pearl: Two room. Yes, that’s where I graduated from, of course, we graduated in the Hall.
Irene: Let’s see where I am at.
Irene: About the school, that’s what we were talking about.
Helen: First date.
Irene: First date you went to the Sunday School Picnic down here?
Pearl: The Sunday School Picnic was held in Trenton.
Irene: Oh my goodness!
Pearl: In Trenton, what was that called… I can’t think of the name of it now. It was a… a… an Amusement Park?
Pearl: In Trenton.
Helen: Not Crabwalker ( Caldwalter ?).
Irene: No, no. It’s not there any more. They went there for a few years and that was one of the years I went.
Pearl: He wasn’t able to drive.
Irene: That’s what I was about to say.
Pearl: But I was friends with Ruth Gerber, which was her sister.
Interviewer: Irene’s sister.
Pearl: And her sister went with a friend that lived in Bozarthtown. That was Tommy Horner. He drove so we went with them. (laughter)
Irene: Isn’t it wonderful (laughter).
Helen: Well I learned something new.
Pearl: So then that was well, probably July? Yes, that had to be.
Irene: A picnic.
Pearl: In the summer sometime. I don’t know. No, I don’t know exactly. It would have been July or August I would say. Well then I just saw him just off and on. Not much from October to November. I guess because he got his license in November and from then on we went out together.
Irene: And you married him the next October?
Pearl: No I married the following…I married in ’32 and I started goin with him. This incident I have bee talking about was in ’29.
Irene: Un huh. That was good.
Pearl: Well we got married and I’m telling you we had nothing.
Helen: I think we all started that way.
Pearl: But the first house we went into belonged to a nurse from New York, a couple of nurses who only used it in the summer time. Well they weren’t using it anymore and they wanted someone in it to take care of it. So Jim and I went in and it didn’t cost us anything and just took care of the house.And of course we got furniture from everybodywho wanted to give us anything.So that’s how it started.
Interviewer: And where is the house?
Pearl: The house? On Chatsworth Road… it’s not there anymore but you know where the beauty shop is? Almost across from there.
Helen: Right next to us.
Irene: And then again you wonder how two nurses from New York would end up here.
Interviewer: I was just going to say…I know. Do you remember the names of these nurses?
Pearl: No, no.
Irene: For a summer home…incredible.
Helen: They were nice though…very nice nurses.
Pearl: And her father was like the caretaker.
A: That’s Helen’s father.
Pearl: He kinda overlooked it you know for them. We lived there 7 years. Oh and my first 2 children were born when we lived there. Then we bought the farm in Bozarthtown.
Irene: But it sure was nice of him to do while he could. It’s too bad.
Pearl: Refresh my memory when I left off…Any how, we bought the farm in Bozuretown, which was only small. We had asparagus, and corn and grew asparagus was our main and we had strawberries too.
Interviewer: You know what year that was…you remember what year that was?
Pearl: We bought that in 1940, 1940 and then we finally he worked for Arrow Safety too. He was at Arrow Safety for a number of years. I don’t know how many.
A: What did Arrow Safety produce?
Irene: The tail lights, the turning signals, that was the Arrow.
Pearl: Arrow Light. And then they finally got into sme other fog lights and I know what else.
Irene: And they are still in business, I didn’t know that.
Pearl: Still in business, so then…he in ’43 he left there.
Interviewer: He left Arrow?
Pearl: Arrow in ’48 and we went into the chicken business.
Interviewer: How old were you at that point?
Interviewer: How old were you at that point?
Pearl: At that point…well I was born in ’15 and this was ’48 so however old I was. (laughter)
Pearl: 33… so we had leghorns and we done good on our chickens and then of course the bottom went out then and we sold the chickens. We also had a small cranberry bog that we also ought. And that was a disaster.
Interviewer: Sounds familiar.
Pearl: We didn’t make much money. But then after we sold the chickens he got a job on the highway…he was in uh transportation, on the highway and he was there 15 years and then he had a heart attack…and he had so and he did not live too long after that and he died in ’74.
Interviewer: Oh, ok.
Pearl: But we built our house on Carranza in 1960.
Interviewer: Oh, ok, ok.
Pearl: And I’m still here. And in the meantime I foolishly married another guy and a…
Irene: Oh well.
Pearl: Anyway I was with him 10 years and we got separated and then we kind of ended that.
Interviewer: How many children did you have?
Pearl: I had 4.
A: You had 4 children? I want to talk too about 1 child, 4 children.
Pearl: 3 boys, 1 girl.
A: By Jim?
Irene: By Jim.
Interviewer: Ok. How old are they and where are they now?
Pearl: My oldest one would have been 63 in April. He died at 32 years old. But died young.
Interviewer: Oh, sorry.
Pearl: Second one, what would he have been? He would have been 61. He died at 50 of a massive heart attack. My next one was just 60. Thank God I hope I outlive him. He has L&L Redimix down the highway. And my daughter is Sandra Roth and she lives in Bozarthtown.
Pearl: Right across from that little house?
Interviewer: Oh sure, ok.
Irene: What does her husband do?
Pearl: He’s a salesman for L&L.
Interviewer: Ok and Helen…you had 1 child?
Helen: Yes. And he lives and he bought where they used to live.
Interviewer: This is going to get confusing…You got to go over that for me, for us, so we get it clear.
Helen: Our son bought
Interviewer: What is his name?
A: Bruce, ok.
Helen: He bought where Pearl and my brother lived in Bozarthtown.
Interviewer: Ok, ok.
Pearl: But he didn’t buy it from us.
Helen: But no, he bought it.
Interviewer: Who did he buy it from?
Interviewer: Fitzpatrick’s. And there are Fitzpatricks who live right on Carranza Road. She’s across. Are they relations?
Pearl: No. He bought it from us…and then Bruce bought it from him.
Interviewer: Ok, and what does he do now?
Helen: He works for the state fixing. He travels all over the state fixing the heaters and burners.
Interviewer: Ok, ok, oh that’s a responsible job. I know we didn’t talk about your children either. We never got into that…no we didn’t. We are going to have to pick up on that descendants issue because we didn’t go through that. Well you know uh, here you know are the things we talked about over the few weeks that we did Dee, Viola, Irene and I got together. We talked about when electricity firs came, the telephone, doctoring, midwives, travel, cars, schooling , grocery shopping, the post office, um we talked about Nixon’s and Sam Scott’s, Haines Store. We talked about the movies and parties and did we talk about spelling bees? I have it checked off here but I don’t think we did. Uh no, churches, schools, Union School, so we have talked about a range of subjects. uh, you know. Why don’t we go , I’m real curious about fences.
Pearl: Well…right in Bozarthtown there was those fences when I was a kid.
Interviewer: Now how would you describe those fences? Because we have to describe it for the tape recorder.
Pearl: Well, All I can describe them as they were rail fences. That’s all, I never saw them being built or anything and by a picture of them is just like that picture… that’s what they looked like.
Interviewer: And do you want to describe them?
Irene: Were they straight like the cemetery building?
Pearl/Helen: No they were tall… they crossed.
Pearl: Oh, I don’t know what it is either.
Interviewer: Ok, I’ll find out.
Pearl: So that’s that. I just remember them being along the road and I remember the snow being all over them. That’s my memory, my memory of them.
Irene: Do you think they were there to define the property? Or were they there to keep the animals in or out?
Pearl: Probably animals in. You see they had horses. You never mowed the lawn…you know the horse mowed the lawn. If it got done, the horse did it.
Helen: Right, and the cow, no mowers.
Pearl: Oh no mowers, no mowers at all.
Irene: Had they been invented? I don’t think they had been invented.
Helen: There was something.
Pearl: They used a scythe.
Helen: That long thing where the horses would draw and the man would sit up there and they had this long arm out and the men they would mow the hay for the horses.
Pearl: Of course horses couldn’t get enough to eat for all winter.
Helen: They had to mow some of the grass for them.
Pearl: That kind of mower they had, do you remember?
Helen: Well the farm where Thelma… do you remember rail fences? The had them there. You don’t remember that?
Pearl: Not there I don’t remember but I remember that in Bozarth…
Helen: Maybe they were easier for the farmer to put up and cheaper.
Pearl: They were wood…they probably got them out of the woods.
Interviewer: Did they make their own log fences?
Pearl: I would imagine they did.
Helen: Chopped trees down and split them.
Irene: Split rail fence? Ha ha.
Interviewer: They have and I know.. Stuart would know. He studies things like that. I’ll ask my husband.
Pearl: They would have went to a saw mill because there were saw mills way back then. So they may have had it taken to saw mills whatever they split.
Irene: There still is a saw mill in Tabernacle.
Interviewer: There is?
Irene: Vincent and Samuel Stills. Not that much, but they do.I don’t know who they do it (for).
Pearl: I don’t know either. I don’t know how they lift the darn logs.I don’t know anything about that..
Helen: They use a tractor to lift the logs.
Pearl: Is that what they do? No.
Helen: Vincent runs a tractor like a front end thing then takes it to a sawmill and they get it on the machine.
Irene: Do you know what they do? I should know these are my cousins but I haven’t seen the sawmill. But I don’t know what they do there. I mean uh, do they make fences? What do they make?
Helen: They do like lumber for anybody that wants to build something.
Irene: Oh really. They make regular lumber?
Helen: People will bring their lumber there or the wood and they make it into lumber.
Pearl: Uh.. I know they made some, um for I don’t know what his first name is..Haines from Hogwaller.
Irene: Oh yeah, for Bill.
Pearl: Bill Haines.
Helen: To put in uh.. flood gates. Yeah, flood gates.
Irene: That’s wonderful, sure.
Pearl: So I know they do some work for him. Ok, who else? I don’t know that.
Irene: Well whatever you wanted they would make I suppose.
Helen: Uh huh.
Pearl: And of course these other whatever kind of wood they…
Irene: How about that…