Interview with KY, with VS and IA in the year 2000

This interview is wide ranging and covers many topics relevant to life in Tabernacle during the first half of the last century. Some of them are:

Where Ken Yates and his family lived on Carranza Road.

How the Tustin Hotel burned.

Carranza Rd. was once Red Lion Rd./Hampton Gate Rd.

Ralph Haines (owner of Haines’ Store) was father of Johnny and Arthur Haines.

Ken Yates and Ray Worrell created the Township’s first tax map.

Local state roads have the numbers they carried as US highways on old bridges.  Rt. 206 is Hywy 39, Rt. 70 is Hywy. 40, Rt. 73 is Hywy. 41.  These numbers are the year of their construction.

Cost of moving 2 Room School and preparing new foundation (and adding 2 rooms?) was $9,000.

“Cheese Box” school bus was driven by Evie Holloway.

Arthur “Skimmer” Pepper was school janitor.

Sam Scott’s Store had gravity fed gas pumps.

“Skimmer” Pepper’s son, Joseph (Bucky) opened Sam’s store when he was ill.

Ken Yates’ father, Joseph, worked for George Wisham in the 30s.

Yates Family arrived in Tabernacle from England(?) in 1880s.  Kids married into Haines, Allen and Horner families.

Carleton Yates’ 3 story house was on Chatsworth Rd.

Allen’s Dairy had a red-haired “cowpuncher” named Lillian Kaplan.

Charles Foulks invented the (traffic?) signal light.

Dairies included:  Beaumont’s, Victor Allen’s, Furman Foulks’, Bob Haines’, Roger Brick’s

Landing strip for barnstormers in the 30s.

Chicken farms included: Dawman, Backard

Interviewer: Tuesday the 24th and we are here, um, with Mr. Ken Yates.

KY: or Ted, one or the other.

Interviewer: Ok.

KY: Back, back in the late ‘30’s, Arthur and Johnny Haines were the sons of Ralph Haines who owned Haines’ Store in Tabernacle. And we used to play with Arthur and Johnny down at the old Bread and Cheese Run here on, used to be Hampton Gate Road, now it’s Carranza Road.

Interviewer: Now when you say we, who are you referring to?

KY: My brothers, my brother Joe who has passed away and my brother Dick and myself. Cause we lived, we lived in the Tustin Hotel. It burned down, right here on Hampton Gate Road, or Carranza Road at the Fox Chase. That’s where we lived, the big two-story house and uh, it burned down April, I think, April the eight 1956 or ‘58 (ed note: 1958-NJ marriage index).

It was the day Judy Gerber got married cause when we was coming home from the fireside reception, we came by there and that’s when Bruce… Bruce was playing with matches and it set the shed on fire and it blew over and set the old house, hotel, on fire and burned it down. But I lived in that house when the Harvest Home across the street used to be on the point of Hawkins and Hampton Gate Road or Carranza Road.

VS: Or Red Lion Road. In between it was Red Lion Road.

KY: Red Lion Road too up to this point. It was Red Lion Road up to Route 532 and this was the only paved road in Tabernacle.

Interviewer: This meaning…

KY: Carranza Road, Flyatt Road, and Old Indian Mills Road was the old highway to Atlantic City. And there was no 206 then. 206 wasn’t built until 1939, by WPA workers.

But going back to the Haines boys, Johnny, and Arthur, they built a crane. They built actually a wooden crane. It had marbles for ball bearings. It would actually turn. We played in the crick and picked up sticks and stuff out of the crick. But it was amazing, the fun we had, by, you know, by playing right there on the water’s edge …

Interviewer: Making your own fun.

KY: Yeah. And the fact that the Tustin farm … Now Mrs. Tustin, at that time, she lived in Philadelphia and she had a flower shop in Philadelphia. She owned a flower shop.

Interviewer: And what year was that? What year are we talking about?

KY: We’re going back into what would be the early thirties for her living in Philadelphia and having the flower shop. She never came out here. She never came out here until the, I would say, the late forties. Middle forties, something like that. That when she come, I think, that’s when her husband passed away and then she came here to live in her summer home. That was their summer home there.

They owned that farm, the Fox Chase Farm. And Richie Tustin lives in it today. Richie Tustin lives in the home that Mrs. Tustin lived in, up until her death when she was 90 some years old. Well, she lived with her daughter, Elizabeth. Liz, as she just sold the farm to the Carranza Farms.

 She owned the part from the Fox Chase Road to the chemical plant. And that’s what Lenape High School just settled on last week. So that now belongs to Lenape High School. But that belonged to Liz. Cause there was three children; Liz, Catherine, and Richard. And Richard’s son, young Richard, lives in Mrs. Tustin’s home today.

VS: And Katherine married …

KY: Katherine married Richard Haines and they built a home. You know I was going over that. You know there was only thirteen from, including Town Hall, Haines’ Store, the parsonage, Methodist Church, there was only thirteen houses from the intersection here all the way to the Vincentown line.

VS: Yes, yes yes.

KY: Cause there was only the Beaumont Farm, that Georgie Beaumont built, …. and me and Georgie built next to the Beaumont Farm. Kaplans lived across from that down a ways. She used to, her and cow puncher, she used to drive a milk truck for Victor Allen.

Remember when Victor worked his team of horses and they pulled the hay. Where Russo has their road stand today, but it was right on the farm building. The barn was right on top of the road. It wasn’t over, thirty, thirty feet, if it was that much, from the edge of the road. Uh, I don’t think it was thirty feet. And they had pull… and they used to have a like a hook, a gaffing hook or something. And they would put that in the hay and two men would be up topside and a team of horses would pull the hay up. And then they would pull the hay into the hay mound, loose. Cause there was no combing back in those days. No such animal. I mean everything was with horses, horse and buggy.

And my grandfather was, he owned three farms back in the early thirties er, and late twenties and early thirties. And he died penniless and on welfare because he loaned people money, even on their notes. And then the bank foreclosed on each farm. He owned three farms in Tabernacle, Joseph Yates did, old man Joe Yates.

And they foreclosed one farm cause this guy didn’t pay the note. And they foreclosed on the next farm. First thing you know he died a penniless man on welfare.

Interviewer: Ted, going back to the Tustin Hotel.

KY: Yes.

Interviewer: When was that hotel built?

KY: My god, I don’t know. It had to be in the early ‘20’s. Or prior to that, maybe, even.

Interviewer: Why was it built there, at that particular…

KY: That was the highway. See, Red Lion Inn, the highway went past Red Lion Inn.

Interviewer: Ok.

KY: The old highway, Red Lion Road was the old highway up until you come to, there was no circle then, ok, it was like an intersection. Red Lion Road continued on around until it passed Pinelands Plumbing and intersects and goes toward Medford. And if you look at Old Red Lion Road, uh, there’s a road to the right of that, when you go by the custard stand.

There’s a little road to the right that travels alongside of it. (ed note: he appears to be talking about the area north of Route 70, by the Evergreen Dairy Bar). In fact, the old telephone poles are still there on the old road to Medford. Same as the old road to Route 72. There is still prints of the tar, the old tar road to the right, as you’re going east on Route 72, on the right hand side is the old road, the old highway.

Interviewer: Well, the Tustin Hotel, was that what used to be (on) Hampton Gate (ed: Road)? That was the road to Atlantic City and New York?

KY: Yes.

Interviewer: Ok, that was through Red Lion.

KY: Yes. And then it came up to the old school here in Tabernacle, and went right, down Flyatt Road, to the intersection with Old Indian Mills Road, turn left at Old Indian Mills Road, and cross 206. Wasn’t there then now, but it went right on across 206, which is there now and went into the Methodist Church in Indian Mills, or Shamong, and it went to the left by the old, by the old Harvest Home. There was a Harvest Home in Indian Mills, which is still there. The same as we have, we had as a Harvest Home here. I remember…

Interviewer: We didn’t talk about the Harvest Home.

VS: That’s because it’s not yet….

Interviewer: That’s ok. No, no that’s ok.

VS: We haven’t done it yet.

Interviewer: The one, the one, um, the one that was at, is at, Hawkin Road.

KY: Yes.

Interviewer: Is that, was that…

KY: They were built the same but two different, uh, townships. See you gotta remember Tabernacle….

VS: You’re talking about churches, churches.

KY: Yeah, yeah. But you gotta remember that Tabernacle was taken out of Southampton, Chatsworth and Shamong. Tabernacle didn’t exist before what, 1903?

VS: 1901.

KY: 1901. That’s why the old deeds, when I became assessor, back in 1958. A lot of the old deeds, I read into the old deeds. And the old deeds didn’t even mention Tabernacle. The old deeds called for Shamong…

VS: Um hum.

KY: Or Southampton or Woodland. See, so that’s how I picked up a lot of my information from the old deeds that I used to research. See, I was the youngest assessor ever to be appointed in the State of New Jersey. And elected in the State of New Jersey. And what I did, I instituted the uh, tax map. I got Ray Worrell, a distant relation, young Ray.

Ray was in an engineering firm just starting out and the firm he worked for, and is part of now, owns part of it. Uh, His firm did the tax map and then after we had the tax map, he and I had reevaluations done. It was the first reevaluation, the first tax map we ever had in Tabernacle. Because you didn’t know what was what without a tax map. You didn’t know who owned what.

Interviewer: Do we have copies of that original tax map?

KY: Yeah.

Interviewer: Yeah somewhere.

KY: Yeah, well see it’s all what ya call revised sections of the…  Some of the pages have never been changed. That. I had; I had an old one. Uh, but the old map is around.

Interviewer: Yeah, maybe it’s somewhere in Town Hall, in the vault.

KY: But see now going back to the Depression, I wasn’t in the Depression and that’s when 206, which was Route 39. If anybody cares, cares to stop and look at any one of the bridges…

Interviewer: Yes

KY: On Route 70, or Route 39, you’ll see it says U.S., U.S. Highway 39. Cause that’s the year it was built. Now Route 70 was built in ‘40. And U.S. 40 is on, it’s stamped in the concrete bridges on that. Uh, Route 73, was built, was built in ‘41.

VS: My, they were busy, weren’t they?

KY: Yes. Well, you be surprised the amount of men, and they worked those days. I mean the men that poured concrete it was all done…

VS: Mostly by hand.

KY: Yes. Cause I have, cause I have a, when I retired from Fort Dix, I have a picture and it shows the old fashion grader and everything the men in civilian clothes and some of the military, building, building the Fort Dix-Pemberton Road. It was amazing.

Uh, now uh, though I don’t… I remember the old, the old school house. There was four teachers, and there wasn’t over, if there was twenty of us.

VS: Now which schoolhouse are you talking about?

KY: I’m talking about the four “bedroom” (ed note: classroom) when they moved it. When they moved it.

VS: Oh, when they moved to make it four.

KY: When they moved it in ‘37. Wasn’t it ‘36 or ‘37? when they moved it.

VS: ‘36.

KY: When they moved it, I think the total cost was like nine thousand dollars. And that was for the foundation, digging it, and doing the foundation. And they moved it over with teams of horses and uh, set it up on there. And they added the other two rooms. It was nine thousand dollars and that was for doing the foundation. Cause the farmers did it and they got the carpenters around the area and the carpenters were you know, all local. Did all the work.

Then the WPA came into existence, in the Depression, and they had the… there the ones that did the curb. It’s funny, that they did the curb work but they never oiled the road, around the school. They graveled it, but they curbed it and graveled it but never oiled it. Why I don’t know, cause we had the WPA toilets out there, in case something happened to the septics in the school. We had the WPA toilets there.

And that’s when we had the “cheese box,” Remember Irene?

IA: Was that the little school bus?

KY: Yeah, Evie Holloway drove the “cheese box.”  The little bus that held about, about ten. About ten kids. Then we had the “cheese box,” we called it the “cheese box” …

Interviewer: Why did you call it the “cheese box?”

KY: I don’t know. Because it was so little. It was so little. And that used to run to Sandy Ridge, went to Moore’s Meadows and Sandy Ridge, and it picked up the Gerber girls. We only had, we only had three families, That was the Sooy girls, Helen, and Pearl Sooy. And they were on what they call Sandy Ridge.

Interviewer: Where is Sandy Ridge?

KY: Sandy Ridge is between Moore’s Meadows and Quaker Bridge, on the right side. When you go to the sandy area, it’s a little hill,

VS: We talked about it the other day.

Interviewer: Oh, ok. Is it across the railroad tracks?

KY: Yes. Sandy Ridge is about two miles, Sandy Ridge is about two miles past the tracks. And as you enter into a curve, you’ll see a sandy area. And there used to be two or three houses setting there on the right-hand side. And that’s where the Sooy girls lived. And uh, Evie Holloway drove the bus.

When I was in school Evie drove the “cheese bus” up there. And Skimmer drove, he was a janitor, Skimmer was everything. He was a janitor; he was the caretaker….

Interviewer: His last name?

KY: Skimmer Pepper, which lived in the Knight House, that we own across the street.

VS: We used to call it the Pepper House.

KY: Pepper House. That’s where Skimmer lived. Arthur Pepper was his name. We called him Skimmer. I don’t know how he got his name. It’s Skimmer. But he liked his wine so maybe that…

All: Laughter.

KY: Right? And uh, uh, He felt so bad when the school board came and told him he couldn’t drive no more. Right? Cause he drove up until I guess, he was in his middle sixties, and then they said, Skimmer you just can’t do it no more.

But that’s when, well like I said, we had my graduating class was only, if it hadn’t been for the three that was left out, left back or four that was left back, there would have only been eight. But as it was, I think there was eleven or twelve in 1947, we graduated.

That’s why, when I, I think I held the first seventh and eighth grade class reunion at the Countryside ten years ago. Eleven, eleven years ago.

VS: Tell me something. Do you remember anything about Scott’s Store?

KY: Sam Scott. Yes, I do. Sam Scott’s Store had the old-fashioned gas pump, two gas pumps, same as the Haines’ Store here. And what you did you wound it, cause everything was gravity feed in the cars too, the Model A cars. The gas tank was up on top, so gravity fed you didn’t need no fuel pump. See. So everybody bought five gallons of gas. So, you would wind up….

Interviewer: Why was that, Ted?

KY: Cause the thing only went to five gallons. The glass enclosure, see, it was about the size of a 12-quart bucket in circumference. But the height of it, I guess around two foot to the top of the tank. It was glass. Yeah.

And they wound up the gas up into there and then you put it into you’re your thing, and then just opened the nozzle, and it just gravity fed down. Cause at a lot of places there was no electric. So that’s why you did it by hand. That’s the way his gas pump was.

Now Sam Scott’s Store, we used to, I used to go to the Methodist Church and we used to wait for my father, we used to go from the Methodist Church over to Sam Scott’s Store and we’d buy a piece of candy and set in there. It was always nice and warm; he had the old wood stove a burning. And uh, and then he’d sell candy, cigarettes, cigars, pipes, ice cream, uh, and that was about it. You could get no milk, but bread. You could get bread because he had no refrigeration.

Interviewer: Now that’s what store that was across the street?

KY: Yeah, where Skimmer…  It was across from the Haines’ It was diagonal…

VS: It was on the property where the Township….

KY: Pepper?

VS: No, no. Township property, that little building.

KY: That’s right. The Township owns now. It was almost directly across from Holly’s Flowers, or Haines’ Store. And then, there was an old garage next to it, big enough and Skimmer Pepper, he used to pull that… Now here’s how little traffic there was in town.

VS: Laughter.

KY: Skimmer, used to pull, he didn’t back the bus in, he pulled the bus in. No kidding, he pulled the bus in the garage. And he backed in out by himself in the morning when nobody was around. So, you know there was no traffic because Sam Scott’s store sat maybe five foot to the porch, there was an overhang. Like an overhang you could sit in at night and talk.

And that’s what we used to do. Cause Earl Harker, her brother-in-law, Earl, opened it up into a pool room, back into the fifties. Right?

IA: Right.

 KY: That was when it was Sam Scott’s. Because it was closed for years. Then Earl got a hold of it and made a poolroom outta it. But, like I say…

Interviewer: When did he do that, more or less?

KY: Pardon?

Interviewer: When did he do that?

KY: That was in the evenings. Cause he…

VS: No, when, what year?

KY: Oh, that was in the fifties. It was about ’49, I think. Cause I got married in ‘51 and he had the pool room then. And then he could have, cause he used to operate…. Then he opened up his barbershop. And he used to do the barbershop during the day and the poolroom at night. Yes.

Interviewer: How old were you at that time?

KY: I guess I was fourteen. Fourteen, fifteen.

VS: When did you get married?

KY: No, no, no, no. I had to be sixteen. That’s right, I got married in ’52. I was eighteen.

VS: Oh boy.

KY: I was a week from being …..  I graduated in ’51 and married ‘52.

VS: I see. Very, very young.

KY: Yeah. I’ve been married 48 years.

VS: Well, I have been told that, Sam Scott’s son, I can’t remember his name now, he also was a mechanic and took care of the cars when they, uh, wouldn’t run properly.

KY: I’ve never, never, never met Sam Scott’s son, but I remember Sam. And everything. And uh, it was funny when he took sick, when he took sick the boys use to come down. Bucky, Bucky used to come down, Bucky Pepper. Skimmer’s, Skimmer’s son, he used to come down and open it up once in a while.

Interviewer: Uh huh.

KY: Bucky would open the …. That’s, that’s Hope’s husband. Across the street.

VS: Joseph.

KY: Joseph, yeah, we called him, we called him Buck. Cause when I was a young boy, fourteen.., thirteen.., fourteen years old, I worked in Indian Mills for Everett Abrams and Bucky worked for Franz Frisco, and his brother Sam, which lived across from right here, he worked for Everett. Cause it was my brother, myself, and Sam, and then Duffy from Medford Farms, he worked down there. And the two Rubin boys. Which one Rubin boy today is in the business in Lumberton, uh, you can see a sign, it’s on the right-hand side there across by the apartments.

VS: yeah, yeah, yeah.

KY: Ted Rubin, plumber. And he’s the plumbing inspector next to….

VS: Good things came out of Tabernacle.

KS: Yeah, now my mother, my mother still living today, and she lives in my house on Lake Road. She’s eighty-eight and a half years old. And she picked cranberries by hand at the Moore’s Meadows for Phoebe Moore. Now Phoebe Moore lived right down here next to the uh, the uh, Junior Mechanics Cemetery, across from Mrs. Tustin’s house.

VS: Next door to the Bread and Cheese Run.

KY: Yeah.

VS: The Bread and Cheese Run is in between the cemetery and their property.

KY: I call it two different things. I call this tree in, across the street from you, the dead tree that’s in the county easement, to have them cut before somebody gets hurt with them. And I called, it was jammed up by beavers…….

VS: Oh, those big oak trees down here, oh I’ll miss them.

KY: No, no, no. They’ll just be topped. The dead ones, the dead ones.

VS: Oh, ok.

KY: And I called the Bread and Cheese Run, it’s got beavers in it. And it was backing the water up. Before it goes through the uh, the uh culvert.

VS: My goodness!

KY: Yeah, it was really backing it up bad and I told them, I said, if you don’t do it, I’m going to take pictures and put them in the paper. Oh advertising, this is the way, they got it cleaned out yesterday.

VS: Well, this must be between Carranza Road and your house, then.

KY: No, the beavers are working, no the beavers are working there right by the Junior Mechanics Cemetery. And there’re damming it up right before the big pipe. My God, the pipe’s this big around. Big as this! The pipe’s big around as it goes underneath the road. And they were damming it up right at the mouth of the pipe.

VS: Ok, ok.

KY: Yeah.

VS: Well now when you do that the man who has the farm is going to miss out on his irrigation hole.

KY: See, what they used to do years ago and I read it the deeds, they would trade a horse. See. If you had a horse and I wanted a piece of land, see, you would know, I’ll take your horse and give you a piece of land, such and such. So that’s how my father bought the two and a half acres, right there across from now Conte’s, which used to be Allen’s farm. So, my father paid the tax. And my father worked for this man, George Wisham. Remember George Wishman?

IA: I don’t remember him.

KY: Well anyhow, anyhow back in the, uh, early early thirties uh, my father worked for George, a dollar and a quarter a day, husking corn all day and then he used to drive a school bus, a dollar and a quarter. For driving a school bus, for a total of two dollars and fifty cents.

Interviewer: What years were those?

KY: They were, they were in, in the late, late twenties, early thirties.

Interviewer: Now, Ken when did your family come to um, Burl…, Tabernacle?

KY: My Grandfather…

Interviewer: Can you give us the background please?

KY: Well, my grandfather came from England. They come from over on a ship from England and there was nine children.

Interviewer: Do you know when he came over? What year?

KY: Oh my God, it had to be, it had to be, in the early, early twenties.

VS: Oh, that late?

KY: I think so. I’m not sure.

VS: Not in the late 1800’s?

KY: It could be. It could be, it could be in the late 1800’s. I guess you’re right because … See, my grandfather and his brother owned where Carlton Yates owns today. You have him already in the historical book.

VS: Sunny Lawn Farm.

KY: Yes.

VS: He owned Sunny Lawn Farm.

KY: And uh. So uh, my grandfather was half owner of that farm. And at some way or another they decided to go out on their own and they split. And so he took that and my grandfather started buying up other farms in the area.

VS: It would have to be in the eighteen….., late eighteen hundreds…

KY: Yeah, it would have to be. Yeah.

VS: Cause in order to do it that way.

KY: Yeah, cause I don’t know the history of the family uh, of Peter Yates. See Peter and Joseph were brothers.

Interviewer: Ok.

KY: And Peter bought up there… Peter and Joseph bought that when they landed here.

Interviewer: And Joseph was your grandfather?

KY: Yes. It probably was the late eighteen hundreds.

VS: What is so amazing is that so many people ended up in Tabernacle. We do not know why, except that I told you when my father…did mention a few things. And he said up there where Bakely’s used to live, and where your cousin, or whoever he is, the Yates, that was known as Englishtown.

KY: Englishtown. Yeah.

VS: You knew that too?

KY: Yes.

VS: So there had to be a connection with people in England to bring all these people here. But I have never known whatever…

KY:  Now see, I never found it out, or I never checked into it, but where my blueberry field was, I was told, I forget who told me, but there used to be a settlement. A small settlement of houses right in that area, that’s after you pass the Birches Road or Moore’s Meadow’s Road on Carranza, on Route 532. Up there, where you see the Lone Oak sign, well right in that area there, there was a settlement of houses.

 Right in that area. And it’s …. And then it started up again.  Because of, like I said, I uh, there’s one, two, three, four, five. There’s five or six houses right there in that little intersection. If you ride down to Moore’s Meadow’s Road, there’s one, two, I think, there are two or three house’s on the right, two houses on the left. Then you got two houses in the intersection. Uh, Ray Adams’ old house, I think. They sold him to Mr. Thompson’s brother. And he’s dead now.

Interviewer: Ok, so your, your grandfather came with his brother.

KY: Yes, from England.

Interviewer: From England. And somehow ended up here.

KY: Yes

Interviewer:  In Tabernacle. Well, it would have been at that point… It was probably before Tabernacle became Tabernacle.

KY: It was, it was.

Interviewer: Right?

KY: Yeah.

Interviewer: Ok.

KY: So, it had, it had to be late eighteen hundreds.

Interviewer: Right.

KY: Cause he was seventy five when he died. And he died in 1950, or 1940, ‘46.

Interviewer: That’s right. If he died in 1946 and he was seventy-five. Ok, so that would have made him. It would have made him 1871 when he was born. OK.

KY: ‘71, ‘81’, ‘91. It would have to be, it would have to be between ‘91 and ……

Interviewer: Well Ted, Ok, now tell me, um, your grandfather had how many children?  Do you know?

KY: Nine.

Interviewer: Nine

KY: Nine, it was five boys uh, six boys and three girls. My father …

Interviewer: Who did he marry?

KY: He married Garner, her maiden name was Garner. Lena Garner. Now she was part Indian descent.

Interviewer: Leni Lenape?

KY: Yeah. Uh, and uh, Eckert’s were in there, we’re related to the Eckert’s, too.  Lester Eckert lives down the street. They farmed the farm across from where my grandfather was… passed way and was viewed there in the house. That was years ago you weren’t viewed in a funeral home; you were viewed in the parlor of the house. Now, you should notice, I said parlor.

VS: We had a Funeral Parlor here?

All: Laughter.

KY: No, no, no. People were viewed in the Parlor of the house.

VS: Oh, yes, yes, yes. That’s where they had it. We have a parlor, when my father built this house in 1912-13, he put a parlor on.

VS: And it was separate, there’s no door there now. Because I had it taken away for the heating. But it was closed up and it was only used for special, special things.

KY: I can remember we had more services; we had more services back in the thirties and forties than we do now. Ok, we had the breadman, milkman

VS: Fishman.

KY: Fishman. Junkman

VS: Ironmonger. Ironman

KY: The old rag bag clothes… That’s how they used to go down the road. And there weren’t no junk layin around around in the woods. You wouldn’t see that. They talk about recycling. Recycling is old fashion, cause they recycled years ago. Everybody thought that’s something new, that’s not nothing new.

Because during the second world war you couldn’t find an old car, a stick of metal, or nothing in the woods or no place because it all went to make the war.

VS: Patch up or make this.

KY: Sure.

Interviewer: Ok, so your father really was one of ….

KY: One of nine, yes.

Interviewer: One of nine.

KY: And, uh, and my Aunt Bertha she married uh, she married a fellow, uh, by the name of Haines, Ethelbert Haines. And they went up to the Birches and he was, his father was the manager of the Birches for, this was for whoever owned it. I don’t know.

VS:  This is cranberry bogs, right?

KY: Cranberry bogs, the manager of the cranberry bogs. And he used to repair all of the equipment and so forth and so on, the boy did. He never went off the …. It was funny, the father and the son, never left the property for employment. Because there wasn’t, I mean everyone more or less stayed on the farm.

When the children got married, they didn’t go out and have a house of their own. They lived in with the family. That’s the way it was back in those days. I mean, uh, cause you had no vehicles. Everything was pretty much horse and buggy.

Interviewer: Now, who, who married in, in your father’s brothers and sisters? You mentioned one. Who else, who did the others marry?

KY: Well, well my uh… Well ok, that was the oldest daughter and then my father came after her and he married my mother which is still living, and she was Polish. And her mother came from Poland and she had eight children.

Interviewer: And what is her name?

KY: Josephine Yates, and she lives in Lake Road where … in one of my houses today. Very healthy, don’t take a pill. Doesn’t take a pill, goes out and rakes the yard every day. Yeah, if a leaf falls, she rakes it.

All: Laughter.

KY: And then my, uh, Uncle Charles he married a girl right here from, uh, from Tabernacle, she was born and raised in Tabernacle and her name was Allen. Her mother was Stella Allen. And her name was Grace Allen.

Interviewer: Is there a relation between Allen’s Feed and uh…

KY: Probably, it’s hard to say. Yeah, probably.

Interviewer: Ok.

KY: And then uh,

VS: They came from Southampton.

KY: Yeah, yeah. And then my Uncle, my Uncle George he married a girl from Whitings.

VS: My goodness, how did he meet up with her?

KY: I don’t know, but he married..

VS: Many miles (laughter).

KY: He married… her name was uh, uh, Thelma?

VS: Thelma was the daughter.

KY: Yeah, Thelma and Janet were two children. But, uh, anyhow. And my Uncle Wes was in the second world war and his appendix broke. And he married a girl from Medford.

Interviewer: Wait, wait wait. He was in the second world war, his appendix broke and he came back here?

KY: Yeah, and he got poisoned and the poison went to the brain and he was never right after that. And he just uh, worked at menial jobs. He worked for Jeff Simmons up there at the dairy farm for years, lived alone and… cause the wife… he just …It was a shame, what happened.

It was a shame, what happened to him because he was such a nice young fella. A good scraping guy and everything but he was just after the poisoning of the brain he was never …… He laid…. that’s when the second world war they made all the hotels hospitals in Atlantic City. See. Every hotel went into a hospital in Atlantic City and that’s where he was.

 And he had, I think they opened him up twenty-one times cause they didn’t have the facilities. And they drained him and drained the poison out of his system, and he laid in there for seven or eight months in the hospital in Atlantic City. Finally, they released him and so forth…. but he still was not right. So I can tell you he married Mucklebee, Sarah Mucklebee from Medford. And uh, she’s still living today, and he passed away last year, he was 70, 78.

And they my Uncle Floyd, he married uh, uh, Anna Horner. And they both passed away two years ago. Him and her passed away six months apart.

And Calvin, he married a girl from Vincentown. He’s the baby of the family and he’s the one that had polio from the Korean War and he wasn’t expected to live past fifty. And he’s seventy-two now.

VS: Laughter.

KY: He had two children and he’s doing very well.

Interviewer: Is he still here in Tabernacle?

KY: No, he lives in Medford. He came out of the service and went to marry this girl and they lived in Medford and worked in the Medford Knitware Mill. Both of them did for a few years and then he went into the service and that was it, he never worked a steady job since then.

VS: Well, how many of ….

KY: He picked blueberries for me on crutches….

VS: How many of your Yates family still live in the Tabernacle Township?

KY: I am, Grace, Grace Yates is still here with her daughter Grace. Uh, cause they had three girls and a boy. And they are all gone except Grace and Gracie. And I, myself, uh, ok, Uncle George’s son Tommy, he is living in the household, but there’re both dead. So, it’s myself and Grace are the only two Yateses left.

I’m the only original Yates and then my brother’s son is lives next to me, Joseph. He lives next to me. My nephew.

VS: So, there’s three Yates families.

KY: Yes. There’re still three Yates families. Well, including Carlton. Carlton in a home now on Tuckerton Road, I think. Over there near the rest home with Mr. Gerber. It’s funny, Mr. Gerber and Carlton are, I think, both the same age. I think they both went to the old one room schoolhouse that we have down here.

VS: Yes, they did.

KY: Both of them. Carlton Yates and him were both the same age and there they are in the rest home, side by side together.

VS: Now Yates is not mentioned in that.

KY: Well Carlton Yates went there.

VS: Well, let me write that down because I don’t have…

KY: Carlton Yates is the same age. Yes.

VS: I’ll add Carlton Yates.

KY: Carlton and Herb Gerber are the same age.

 VS: to the list of students.

KY: He had open heart surgery at 83 years old. In Deborah, Carlton did.

VS: Oh.

KY: Cal Cutts is  and old guy and he’s a vegetarian.Never ate beef. Everybody said he killed deer and so forth, he never killed no deer.

IA: Is Carlton the one who has the old house up there?

KY: Yeah, he was never married.

VS: I think the house is empty now.

KY: That’s right. The house is empty. He lived there, never married….

Interviewer: Up where? Up where?

IA: Um, Chatsworth Road uh, the old … house.

KY: It’s a beautiful stone house, brick house. It’s got a beautiful lawn, on a hill, like on the right across from the entrance right to…uh, is it Harrogate?

VS: No, Harrowgate is up…

KY: Or not Harrowgate. Washington Way.

All: Washington Way.

KY: Right across from Washington Way, after you pass Washington Way you’re your gonna come to Buttersworth Bogs Road. But just before Buttersworth Bogs Road there’s a…

VS: It’s a three-story house.

Interviewer: Ok.

VS: Small, three story house. Old, old, old.

KY: Never painted. Never painted, the barns fell down and probably his money is in there underneath something. He never brings it to the bank. OK?

VS: That’s the way they did it.

KY: And he had an old horse, and it didn’t kill the horse. The horse got around it. But he lived there alone, all by himself. He never married, never had a little piggy and never went out with a woman. And uh, he uh, after his brother John died and he went out of that house and that one they tore down. It’s out in front of Eschenberg’s was.

Remember the old homestead.

VS: Yeah, yeah.

KY: And then he moved over into this, I would call it a tenant house. And he lived there ever since. No electricity, no running water, and that’s the way he lived until… He never knew what it was to, uh, have electric at all. Kerosene lamp…

VS: Well, he went to bed with the chickens.

KY: Yeah. Him and his dog, him and his dog lived in the one room. They never lived in the rest of the house, they just lived in that one room.

VS: Well, that was the way it was for many people in those days.

KY: Like I say, I remember the Fox Chase house had no electricity. Mrs. Tustin’s Fox Chase house had no electricity. We had no electricity when we moved to Indian Mills. We moved twenty-one times.

Interviewer: Oh, my word.

KY: Twenty-one times from the time I was a little kid.

VS: Oh dear (laughing).

VS: You never moved here, did you?

VS: Now I was told that where the Russo homestead is, was the old Wisham house. Do you remember?

VS: Down the main…

KY: Um hum.

VS: There was a new…

KY:  It had an addition, had an addition, yes. That is the old Wisham house.

VS: Ok, so we were right. It’s the Russo homestead now.

Interviewer: Which Russo homestead?

VS: Well, you don’t see it from the road. Unless you go up Carranza…

Interviewer: Oh, it’s the one… go up and make a left. Near where Madelyn lives.

KY: Yeah. Madelyn lives on one end and then the family, the mother and father lived on the other end. They’re both passed away and now Brenda just moved in there.

Interviewer: Ok.

KY: Brenda is going to live there until her house is completed or something. She is going to live there for six or seven… That’s Joe and Natalie’s daughter Brenda. And she has two children.

Interviewer: Ok.

KY: So, they’re living in there now.

VS: Ok, so I was right.

KY: When I worked for the Russo’s when he had horses and I used to, I used to take care of the horses for him and milk the cows and take the eggs out from the chickens and all that kind of good stuff when I was a little boy. But they came here, right about during the second world war. The Russo’s did. Prior to that, the place uh, Horace Jennings was farming that farm, the Russo Farm, prior to that.

But Allen’s had a milk service. Victor Allen, Victor Allen had a milk service. They bottled milk and cowpuncher. Remember the red-headed cowpuncher? They called her. I never knew what her right name was.

VS: But we knew her.

KY: Yes, but she lived with Mrs. Kaplan. Was a Jewish lady and her husband was a captain in the Navy. (ed note: census research shows Matthew (Naval employee) and Lillian Kaplan lived with children David and Mary on Tabernacle Road) And he retired. I never met him.

But she used to take us to Philadelphia, Mrs. Kaplan, she took us around more, my two brothers, or my brother and myself and their son. They only had one son, David. And I think they had a daughter, uh, I don’t know, but there was a lot of age difference between the two children. So uh, but she used to take us to the deli in Philadelphia back in the early forties. And then take us to the Jewish delicatessen, get us those sandwiches, you know with the Jewish pickle and ah so great.

VS: Because her name was spelled with a “K.”

KY: Kaplan. K..A..P..L..A..N.

Interviewer: And do you know how she ended up here?

KY: No, never knew. But they were the last house in Tabernacle Township, on Hampton Gate Road going towards Vincentown, on the left.

Interviewer: Is the house still there?

KY: Yes, the house is still there. In fact, a classmate of mine lived in that house and just sold it. Uh, um, two years ago. It was up for sale and she just sold that place.

VS: Is it still the last house?

KY: No, no, no. There’s been her relation Shirley Gerber, or Shirley whatever.

Interviewer: Powell.

KY: Powell. I think Shirley’s almost the last house, isn’t she, on the left.

IA: I don’t know if she’s the last on or the next to the last one.

KY: Close to it.

IA: Yeah.

KY: Because I knew every person…

VS: Well sure you did.

KY: I knew every person in Tabernacle, Indian Mills and Chatsworth.

VS: Cause there wasn’t that many. (laughter).

KY: It’s true. I mean, you uh had to, on the road from 532, the intersection of 532 to 206, you had her father’s house.

VS: Five houses.

KY: Yes.



KY: You have Philip Gerber’s house, which is Irene’s father’s property. And then you had uh, Uncle Ed’s, a farmhouse, which was just sold here a couple of years ago. And then you had Hosea Moore’s right across the street from them. This was before Arthur and all, and Uncle Bill. Uncle Billy, and then Harry Worrell’s father built next to his father. Right?

IA: Right.

Interviewer: This is on Hampton, originally Hampton Gate Road?

KY: No, no, no no. This is on, this is on Route 532. Between Town Hall and 206.

Interviewer: Oh, ok.

KY: There was only three farmhouses then. Four, four, …… Haines farm right on the curve. And my father lived there.

IA: So, your mother and father lived everywhere.

KY: Yeah, right. And Furman Foulks, now the guy whose father, Charles Foulks, was the one who invented the signal light and in Ralph Haines’ store. Furman farmed and had a successful dairy farm over where the old O’Neal farm is now. And I don’t know what happened to him, but all of a sudden, he went out of the dairy business. But there used to be, uh, seven dairy farms in Tabernacle, twenty- one chicken farms.

Interviewer: Do you remember who owned each one of those dairy farms?

KY: Uh, dairy farms, let’s see. There was the Beaumont’s, down here on Hampton Gate Road. They had the first one as you come into town. And then there was Victor Allen here. Furman Foulks owned the one on Flyatt Road. There was Jeff Simmons up on the left-hand side of the road at what used to be Nelson Haines. Course Nelson Haines, that’s where Bruce Haines lived next store.

Interviewer: What side, which side?

KY: It was his grandfather, Nelson Haines, Bruce’s grandfather who fell off, they were shingling the roof of the barn, fell off, broke his neck and it killed him.

VS: He had a dairy farm; I never knew that.

KY: Yeah, yeah.

Interviewer: Which road was that on?

KY: This is on Carranza Road. They call it Breeze Hill. Yeah, the Kruger farm.

Interviewer: Oh, ok.

KY: You pass it all the time. And then there was uh, uh, Bob Haines’ dairy farm, Sunnylawn Farm. And then there was Roger Brick’s dairy farm. Off of, sets back off on the right-hand side. Let’s see, one, two, three, four, five, six. Who’s the seventh one?

Interviewer: Montgomery houses?

KY: Montgomery, well I said Roger Brick. See, that’s when back in the depression, for entertainment, people, they used to have a landing strip there. That was hayfields. And they mowed it close and they used to have airplanes that’d come in, on Sunday afternoons, and the people would just flock there, and that was your entertainment on a Sunday afternoon. The airplanes would take off, guys would stand on the wings, and they would do loop-to-loops. Right? You remember that? You don’t remember that?

IA: I never got taken there.

KY: Yeah, yeah, they had that. That was back in the thirties. And, uh

VS: Well I don’t know what tak……so long.

KY: Yes, yes.

IA: You go in the planes; they take you up.

VS: For a price?

IA: For a price, of course.

KY: Now the chicken farms, I couldn’t begin to tell you all the chicken farmers. In fact, Jim Gerber was one back in Bozarthtown years ago. And there was two Eschenberg brothers. They used to fly dirigibles during the second world war over top their houses cause they swore up and down they were German. They came here from Germany. So, they were watching all the German people.

Basically, we were at war with Germany. And uh, uh but that was a number of chicken farmers. There was Dawman, down there on the right-hand side. You remember Dawman, you crossed it, I mean Medford Lakes Road, from 206 on uh, Dawman’s lived there. They had chickens there. And then Backard.

Interviewer: Who’s that?

IA: Mr. Backard.

KY: Carl Backard. He wound up working for the federal government. He was spackler for the government. He used to spackle all the seams in their buildings and so forth. Carl Backard did my house. Everybody did work on my house now passed away.

But it was funny, now the Bread and Cheese Run, go back there on the Bread and Cheese Run, I can remember when people used to pull their car, off of New Road and down in and put it right in. Cause it was solid in the bottom of it. And they’d pull their old model A in and that’s where they’d wash their car there. And they’d wash their car over by the oldest house in Tabernacle, the Zimmerman’s the Zimmerman’s house there. There was no bridges. You went right through the water.

VS: They ignored it, the water.

KY: That’s right. They went right through. Did you talk about the Blue Comet that used to run?

VS: No, not yet.

KY: There was the Blue Comet used to run, uh, from New York and through here and you could hear the whistle blowin. And what happened, uh, there was a big storm and the bridge, uh, partially washed out and the Blue Comet crashed. Well not crashed, but run off the track up there, and uh, that was almost around the same time that, uh, the Hindenberg ….and uh.

Interviewer: Crashed.

KY: Yeah, down in Toms River. Bout the same time that that happened. And after that’s when the goodwill pilot, right?

All: Carranza.

KY: Yeah, Emilo Carranza. That was all within the same era, time. You know, up there. And my father went to the Hindenburg. Now I don’t know, you know, I can remember him talkin’ about that. But other than that I wouldn’t know what went on. You see more about it on television, it’s amazing the pictures they have of that. The way it burned and so forth. Somebody had a movie camera there taking pictures of that. Cause it was just amazing…

VS: Well, they were there because they were expecting it to come in. It was really a very big event that was taking place.

KY: Yeah, yeah.

VS: So, they were going to be there taking pictures of it. They never expected it to be the big event that it was.

KY: They had; they had an article on New Jersey channel the other night about the cranberries. I hate to switch from one thing to the other, but the cranberry pickers. And they showed the pickers in different… in Whitesbog. All the, all the pickers, they picked by hand.

It was amazing how they harvested those berries. Cause I used to remember my mother saying ………………. But when you figure you see the vines, to get the cranberries off, you know it’s amazing that… how technology has really brought things to the point that now they say the cranberry grower can’t make it at ten dollars … I think it’s ten dollars and ten cents a barrel. From eighty-five dollars a barrel down to ten dollars and ten cents. You know.

IA: Because of the glut on the market.

VS: People can’t use that many cranberries.

KY: But see the Cutts family, and I guess her (ed note: Viola), what was Walter and all those related to your father somehow. What, however.

VS: Their father and my father were brothers.

KY: But they, they all lived in the house, it still hasn’t been torn down, it’s up there.

VS: Laughter. It’s collapsing.

KY: They got married. They kept getting married, but they all lived home, in the homestead, didn’t they? It took them quite a while to build their houses. But all those homes you see, all that wood was cut off of their property. And they got their sawmill here and they would, they would mill their stuff and then they would build it their selves. The brothers would get together, all, Walter and John and uh, …..

VS: Ernest and Ross.

KY: and Ernest and Ross. The four boys.

Interviewer: Now, on Carranza road, I guess up that way, there…

VS: To the north.

Interviewer: To the north, sorta near the old house that ended up being torn down, across the road, there was a structure there. Um, you can still see some of the, it’s very heavily wooded now and overgrown, but there was a house there. Maybe I’m too close to that one. I have to drive, I have to go out and look.

VS: The house that was torn down…..

KY: Right here, right across the street, right here.

Interviewer: But somewhere right past … maybe it’s past it on the right-hand side going north.

KY: Well, that’s the one I have been telling you about. It’s the Cutts brothers.

Interviewer: Ok, that’s the one…

KY: That’s the one that fell down.

VS: No, no, no, no. Here’s uh, there’s a road that goes in, and I forget who lives back in there, but it’s before, just before you get to the cemetery.

Interviewer: Yes, it’s a road to the right.

KY: Yes.

VS: It’s a lane.

KY: School teacher lives back in there. Lenape schoolteacher. Yeah, three houses in there now.

VS: But that’s only a small woods. And it goes over towards his house. On New Road.

KY: Back there right behind me.

Interviewer: Ok, well I was thinking this is something that I, that is closest to Carranza, closest to the road on Carranza. You could see it heavily, … when I go out there, I will try to identify specifically. But you could see there was a structure there at one time.

VS: That’s before you get to the property that’s going to be the Lenape school. It’s right beside Bread and Cheese Run. Practically. It’s about just before you get to Bread and Cheese Run. The one I’m talking about. She’s talking about, it’s a small woods, wooded area, in there. Past, uh, it’s not even as far down…

KY: Hanny Reeves, remember Hanny Reeves’s old house?

VS: Yeah.

KY: Then Hicky Thomas built one next to Hanny Reeves’s house.

VS: Yes.

KY: Are you talking about the woods after that? Of Tustin?

VS: No.

KY: Or the woods before?

VS: and Interviewer: Before.

KY: That was an open field. That was an open field. When I was a young boy that was all a farm. That was an open field. That’s between uh, Allen’s and uh…

VS: Duffy Allen.

KY: Duffy Allen. That was between Duffy Allen’s field and Hanny Reeves’ house. It’s a low ravine in there, but that used to be farmed. When we hunted it, when it grew up in grass there was a coupla trees and the pheasants used to hang in there. We loved to pheasant hunt in there. It was nice to pheasant hunt in that area. But there was never a building there.

VS: I don’t remember one.

KY: No there was no building ever there. The only building, you’re probable talking about the one next door to the church. That’s the only one falling down the remnants of a building.

VS: She doesn’t mean a house, she means a foundation.

Interviewer: Is there still a foundation there. Is that what I am looking at, is the foundation to the house?

KY: Well, there was a foundation to the old icehouse or whatever they had here.

Interviewer: Ok, maybe that’s what it is. Ok.

VS: Well, I just, let me get my bearings here. I know…

KY: The one we just tore down at our church, our church just tore down, across the street, I was responsible for getting that done. Because, uh, we didn’t want someone to get in there and get hurt and so forth and the insurance….

VS: Well, they’d taken everything out of it? Laughter.

KY: Yes, of course. …………………… and they never roofed it again. It’s a shame, if the roof had been done it had been a nice house. And that was another thing. There was no inside bathroom in there and it was just…. It first time I ever seen an outside privy, with uh, lathe and plaster. The first one I ever did….

All: ooh and ahs

KY: Lathe and plaster, the same as the house. And the guy who tore that down, Larry, who’s working over there right now, it’s your son (ed note: Irene’s). Ok, her son, did the machine work to tear that down, he said “Can’t get that house is so well built.” He said “I had three sides of it down,” and he said, “I hit that with my hoe and it come over and came right back up and stood right back up straight.” “Wouldn’t come down.” Yeah, her son Larry told me.

Multiple speakers – unintelligible.

KY: But it was so, … the floors were rotten, the roof was rotten, it was a shame.

Interviewer: If the roof had been saved the house, the rest of the house would have been.

KY: Oh yeah.

VS: Well, it could have been sold repeatedly.

KY: Yes. There were, there were… four other …

VS:  But they would not even hear about this. That bothers me.

Interviewer: Why is that?

KY: I don’t know, but I tried. I tried to buy it from the girls and they wouldn’t… I just couldn’t get to first base with them.

VS: Grace went to first base with you.

KY: Oh yea.

VS: But the other two wouldn’t. In fact, she is the one that is responsible for selling it.

KY: Oh yeah.

VS: Prevail, prevail, prevail.  But eventually she won, but it took years. For her to convince…

KY: And Jimmy used to work for me as a young boy. He worked for me down here when I had the beans and cabbage on Katherine Haines’ farm. Where Rickey (Haines) lives today, I had … I raised beans and cabbage there. Just before…

VS: You’re a busy man, you think?

Multiple speakers.

VS: Tell em what you do now, you build houses.

KY: I do. In fact, I just gave Steve Scales a price his morning. I sub everything out. You know. I just telephone and do it that way.

VS: I know I have to ask you a question that doesn’t have anything to do with that. (recorder turned off, then resumed with new topic).

Interviewer: Why don’t we talk about, … What did your father end up doing when he, when he …

KY: When he left the farm, he got married…

Interviewer: He was born here, I have…

KY: Yeah, my father was born here. All of us, nine children, were born here. Yes. And I had seven children. But my father wound up going to work during the second world war, he went to work for the New York Shipyard. And then, prior to that he worked for the highway department. State Highway Department. Then he wound up, when he died, he lived right here in the homestead. And he worked for the Burlington County Highway Department.

Interviewer: OK.

KY: Then he had leukemia. That’s what my father had, leukemia. He was in bad shape. But my mom, she lived in Burlington, came back here, I brought her back here.

VS: Well, you lived in Burlington too.

KY: That’s for a short time, yeah, back in 1946. I was in Burlington for like six months. That’s when I found out my name was Kenneth.

All: Laughter.

KY: I always knew my name was Teddy. Everybody knew me as Teddy. When I put my name on the side of my truck in letters that big, Ken Yates, nobody knew who I was!

All: Laughter.

KY: It’s the truth. And uh, but I went into the highway, onto Burlington, my mother and father separated, in ‘46. Anyhow, I was in the eighth grade and I went to Robert Safety Junior High, which I talked to a girl last Sunday night, over there.

We was having dinner at that fancy place on the railroad there, whatever the name of it is, and I, uh said, have you ever heard of Robert …. Was you born here? She said “Yeah.” So, I said where do you live? She said, “Burlington Township.” At where, near Salem Road? She said “Yeah.” I said, “do you know anything about Farneville?” She said, “Where’s Farneville?”

I said Farneville starts from JB Bakery and goes up High….

Interviewer: Farneville? F. A. R. N. E. V. I. L. L. E. (ed note: actually Farnerville)

KY: Yeah, part the call Farneville

Interviewer: Ok.

KY: And that was from JB Bakery all the way up to the top of Springside Hill and took in that area all the way out to Salem Road. She didn’t know that. So, then I said how about the Robert Safety Junior High School? She said, “where was that at?” I said well, that was right across from the old high school and that’s where the seventh and eighth grade children went to, Robert Safety Junior High.

But anyhow, I got my tonsils…  I had tonsilitis, so I went in the hospital in Riverside, Zurbrug Hospital. And, when I came to, the nurse she was calling me Kenneth and I wasn’t responding.

She said, “what’s the matter, don’t you know your name?” I said, “that’s not my name.” My name is Theodore!

All: Laughter.

Interviewer: What’s the history of Theodore and Kenneth?

KY: Ok, I was gonna tell you. So anyhow, the nurses, uh, I’ll tell you what, when my mother comes in here tonight, she’ll tell you who, what. So, I ask mom and mom said your name is Kenneth.

The history behind that is, I went to see my Aunt Mary which I hadn’t seen in thirty-three years, Sunday, this Sunday past, and her husband’s name was Ken. My mother liked the name of Ken, so she named me Kenneth. My father raised so much H…, that he was bartending, and he used to hang out at the bar here, Theodore Batterson’s, cause the old bar, that was a poolroom, that was a poolroom when it first started. Theodore Batterson started that as a poolroom.

That was his best friend. So, his name was Theodore. So, to keep peace in the family, we’ll call him Theodore. And that…

Interviewer: So, it’s really Theodore Kenneth.

KY: No. No, it’s not even Theodore at all. Not at all. Not even on my birth certificate. It’s Kenneth Yates. I’m not Theodore, Teddy….

VS: But everybody calls you Teddy.

KY: Yeah.

Interviewer: Ok. That’s funny.

KY: Yeah, I can tell. A few of the younger ones that’s heard so they call me, they’ll hear my wife, so they call me Teddy. But other than that, so that’s how I got it.

IA: I always said he was Teddy and then when he moved to Burlington and he came back Ken.

KY: Came back Ken.

All: Laughter.

VS: What does Dorothy call you most of the time?

KY: Ken. And anybody’s close to us they’ll say Kenny. So no matter where I worked, I got two names. Kenny, or the old-timers call me Ted. And the newers call me Ken.  That’s what I did, there was four Ken’s in the last office where I worked, so I said just call me Ted. Cause there was too many Kens.